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Post by Ma on Sept 19, 2004 3:35:37 GMT
Hello, first of all, let me introduce myself, i'm Mariana, from argentina, and i'm a big tennis fan. I come often to visit this page since a year ago, and i want to say hello and give a hug to everyone of this fun group. Also, i want to say that your page is great, and thank you, Louise, for it and last but not least(is that well said?), congratulate you and marcus on you new life role as parents, and wish the best for the two of you and your little Lewis-Price. The reason i post this, is that i want to say something about the chileans. I don't want to be bitter, but the reality is that in argentina we don't cheer for them. They have been unkind with us since ever. Let's remember that they threw stones to Mariano and made a serious injury with a chair on the head of mariano's father, who has to be hospitalized, in the match that mariano played in chile against Rios. Never was an apology or a indemnization, and mariano was disqualified because he had to leave the court. And is not the first time something like that happens with argentininans in chile. There's thousands of examples, but beyond this is not new, i can't avoid feel indignation when i heard that the other day Fernando Gonzalez told after winning the medals in athens, and chile asked for the nationalization of De La Peña in order to be the trainer of chile in the Davis Cup: "we can burn the argentine passport and give him a real one." Another example, when Massu won the gold, there was lots of messages sended from chileans to the argentinian tv transmissions asking if the gold was more important than winning Roland Garros, in obvious reference to Gaudio's victory. I sincerely hope that one day they stop looking over the Andes and start living their own lives. Meanwhile, i prefer to keep my distance. Sorry for being so antipathic in my first post, but i had to say all that. PD: as you can see my english is not good at all, i'm sorry... til' next time... big hugs for everyone. Ma
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Post by Louise Lewis-Price on Sept 19, 2004 11:42:18 GMT
Hello Ma WELCOME TO THE BOARD Thank you for your very kind comments regarding this page I really appreciate them, especially regarding Little L-P too. Thank you (he's doing really well.....) Your English is perfect! - I wish my Spanish was that good. Thank you for sharing your opinions with the Chilians with us. I have to say that I do agree with everything you say, I remember that incident clearly as it happened about 1 month after I first met Mariano for the first time, I was struck by his extreme friendlyness, his manners, and personality (oh yes!! and dazzling smile of course...) and then to read 1 month later that he had been the victim of the sort of crowd violence usually compared to British Football Hooligans - it really affected me. It seems to me that all over the world, in every country, there are a small group of racist trouble makers always manage to get their voices heard and stir up trouble, if these people were not around, the would be a much nicer place. Welcome again to the board - where abouts in Argentina are you from? Louise
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Post by Ma on Sept 19, 2004 16:31:06 GMT
Hi!
Thanks Louise for being so nice. I'm from Buenos Aires, but i live in Córdoba, at the center of the country. Now i'm online, looking for news of the Acasuso's match, and i came by to send my best wishes for the new Mariano's tv show.
Kisses. ma
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Post by Corina2605 on Sept 19, 2004 20:13:06 GMT
Welcome Mariana (beautiful name you have got I remember the Chile DC tie too - it was shocking what happened to Mariano's family in Vina . I don't like M playing in Chile too much, even if he doesn't play a DC tie, but only a regular ATP tournament. Also, I was disappointed when I read Gonzalez' comments about burning De La Pena's Argentine passport some days ago. I really used to like Fernando, but I kind of lost respect for him now Anyway, I hope things will calm down and everyone will be more peaceful in the future !
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Post by Louise on Sept 19, 2004 21:17:16 GMT
I wonder how HdP truly felt about hearing that?
Sorry I didn't realise that FG had said that. I read the name but somehow did not associate it to Fernando Gonzalez.... Tennis Player... I have been really busy over the last couple of days looking after neices (training!!)
I apologise for not reading your post properly Mariana -
I really cannot believe he came out with a comment like that!!! - was he serious??? I hope, for his sake, he was joking!!!!!!!
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Post by kitzfan on Sept 19, 2004 21:26:28 GMT
Hi Mariana! Welcome on the board! It is always nice to meet here Mariano`s fans from Argentina. But I also have to mention something. I really do not see a reason for the subject of your post… I mean statement… Here and now. Your first post is about Chileans. Sometimes we are talking about other players and other topics as well, but usually positively. So I was a bit surprised and sad when I read your first post on this board. O.K., I have to admit that I am also a fan of Chilean players, too. They have won my heart in Athens this year, but I haven`t posted here anything about what that magical Saturday evening meant for me and for everybody who was lucky enough to be there, because this is not the right place for that. This is Mariano`s board and he lost in Athens. So I did not see a reason to start a topic about the Chilean players here. How fantastic and special they are. And so I was a bit surprised to read your first post. About the Chileans. How evil they are. In general. Sorry, but it is strange for me and it hurts. And it hurts NOT because I am a fan of Gonzalez` and also of Massu`s; it hurts because I have to face statements which are talking about collective responsibility of a nation. Louise was right; you can find everywhere a bunch of people who are bad guys and are looking for trouble. Crime is everywhere. Unfortunately. I know, I am Hungarian and live far away from both side of the Andes so I cannot see the whole picture, I can never feel what and how you feel, but I do believe that people are in general good. And so are Chilean people, too. In general. Of course I am very upset because everything that has happened in Chile on the DC couple of years ago. And of course this sentence from Gonzalez was irresponsible and stupid. But I still do not see a reason to start here and now with a post like yours. Something additional about the behavior of the Chilean tennis fans in Athens: as fans of Mariano and also some other Argentine players we had Argentine flag with us and also blue-white-blue painting on our faces, and we have received from Chilean players and supporters nothing else but smiles and greetings. Nothing bad. Not even on the Etlis/Rodriguez vs. Gonzalez/Massu match. Sorry for this answer It was not meant to hurt you or anybody else. Of course I will respect your feelings and so the feelings of others not to cheer here for Chilean players (what I also did not do during the US Open, even tough I supported them until the last minute…), bt please respect the feelings of people who like or dislike players regardless of their nationality. Please consider this as my statement “about the Chileans”. You know just my two cents…<br> I hope we can discuss here the forthcoming news about Mariano in total harmony in the future! I really believe it and looking forward to it! Bye! kitzfan
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Post by Louiselp on Sept 19, 2004 22:11:58 GMT
Hi I have just spent the last 20 minutes trying to dig out a post from a Chilian Mariano fan from the other board. It was a really nice message, basically she explained that not all Chilians felt the same way and that she really hoped that some day Mariano would return to Vina del Mar. She got her wish this year Louise
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Post by Ma on Sept 20, 2004 3:17:32 GMT
hello everybody again i never posted anything in a whole year, and now i post three messages in two days... too much, doesn't it?... I just wanted to put this in clear, i never poste before, because i didn't had anything to share, i don't go to matches, and i don't know the players, so i feel like an et here, when i read about your "tennis tour experiences". I'm sorry for being so bitter, like i've said, but that was the first time i felt i had something to share. when i saw that in an earlier post you said that Chile is the closest country, sentimentally speaking, to Argentina, and just been noticed of the Gonzalez sentence, made me feel that was necesary to told you how is the situation at this side of the ocean. I'm not saying thal All the Chileans are this or that, but i can describe a reality. Of course you can find good and bad people everywhere, but what i find serious of this discrimination business, is that in Chile happens in an structure level, the mass media and the public representants all the time are saying things just like what Gonzales said. and i say serious, because this people not only represents the popular thinking, they are also opinion formers. And i can confirm you this is real for my personal experience, of talking with chileans, personally or in a chat room, i'm not magnifying if i tell you that around the 90% have a similar speech. that's why in argentina we don't feel close of chileans, like we can feel about brazilians like Guga or peruvians like Horna. It's a different situation. I want to remark this, i fully respect all the people and all the opinions, but i'm trying to describe a relity, and to say that all disrespects hurts me, wherever they came, specially if they came from racist argentinians, because, like argentinian i am, i feel lamentably involved. And how i'v said, i try to keep my distance, which doesn't mean be spiteful. I have no animosity about Gonzalez, i'm just hoping he recalls to mind about what he said. Kitzfan, i'm really sorry about all this bad situation. It wasn't my intention to offend you. I send you a big hug, and i promise to come the next time with something happier. Changing the subject, i hope you could see the Mariano's tv show on the channel website, it was very funny, he was really shy and tense, and he joked all the time. it was very natural and nice. I'm really happy for him. ;D Bye, kisses for all of you, and thanks for your opinions. Ma
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Post by GWH on Sept 20, 2004 4:36:16 GMT
Ok, I wasn't initially going to answer this thread, but I have decided to say so.
That Gonzalez thing was a joke, and if he hated Argentines so much, De La Pena might have changed his citizenship, but he is still an ethnic Argentine and why would have he employed him as a coach.
Yes, there is some bad history between Chileans and Argentines, and when it comes to a sporting contest that nearly everyone else in South America, would cheer for everyone but Argentina.
The fact is I don't have a problem with Chileans at all, nor people from Argentina, yes that was unfortunate incident at the Davis Cup, but how is that representative of a whole nation?
This would be like me condemning every German as a nazi because of what happened in WW2.
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Post by marianosnewestfan on Sept 20, 2004 12:58:09 GMT
Hi Ma...welcome to the board. I have been reading this post for a while and just wanted to add my two cents. It seems to me that you are just trying to express a hurt you have because of the racist behaviour of the Chileans, even to present day. With Gonzales' statement, it is probably difficult to take it as a joke when there is a negative history behind it. Understanding that it doesn't reflect of all Chileans, but as you say it does reflect a majority of them which is why you feel to bring it up, maybe more so because this is a website that fully supports an Argentinean. Is it possible that the ones who have responded to your opinion, somewhat negatively, are ones other than an Argentinean or are other than a Chilean and they cannot feel it like you because they are not experiencing it like you do or have. I just felt the need to say something in your defense. Based on what I read I don't feel that you are trying to offend anyone but just trying to put out there that there is animosity between the two countries and to support Mariano maybe would be a good idea not to necessarily cheer out loud for the Chileans. If I'm wrong in my interpretation, I apologize. Maria
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Post by Ma on Sept 20, 2004 14:44:31 GMT
Hi Maria
Thanks for your post. You understanded me perfectly. I feel that i've explained so much about something very simple, and that brought confussion.
It's just that, there's animosity. And the intention of my post was to answer a simple question: It's chile the closest country to argentina, sentimentally speaking? No, it's not, there's hard feelings between the two countries. Just that
And it's not comparable to the WW2, because that was something made by a small group of people, that don't represent the popular feeling of germans.
But in the case of the chileans, it is, the majority thinks like that, and that's why we don't feel close of them.
I didn't wanted to make a big deal of this. My mistake.
kisses for all, Ma.
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Post by egg on Sept 20, 2004 22:33:13 GMT
Hi all! I really shouldn’t stir the pot further, but it seems like I started it all, so maybe I’m allowed to say a few words too. That is, if I can have marianosnewestfan’s permission, of course! Ma, my question was rhetoric, but thanks for answering it anyway. The only thing I don’t understand is why not then and there??? I can understand and accept that it bothered you to some extent, but why open a new topic about it? Weeks later… And please don’t say that you had nothing else to tell us! You live in Argentina – most of us don’t. You can see things, read things, hear things that we can’t. There must be a lot of things that you could share with us. Which doens’t mean that the Argentine-Chilean relationship is NOT an interesting topic, but it sure was a strange start. As for my comment (it really wasn’t a question), I didn’t mean to say that the two countries are really close sentimentally. I meant it in a tennis sense. With only North-Americans and Chileans left int he draw, I think we could say that the Chileans were the closest to Argentina. Not only geographically, but also in the style of play, or their fighting spirit, or call it whatever you want. There ARE some South-American qualities, and you can’t say they are true for everyone (the „friendly” countries), but the Chileans. I did know that Chile and Argentina were not the best neighbours, although I admit I wasn’t perfectly aware of the extent of the animosity. I know more now – thanks to you – and I see it’s sad situation, and I can understand if Chile is not too popular in Argentina, (although it’s a little difficult to believe that the situation is so one-sided – but that’s another matter, and it’s not the point now.) I had a blast in Athens, and I’m not going to feel differently about it just because stupid Chileans send stupid messages to Argentina (and OF COURSE the Roland Garros means a lot more than their golds!! ), or because Gonzalez said something he probably shouldn’t have, although I am sure it was just a joke. In Athens I saw two players I just had to admire, and their supporters were great too, and created such an atmosphere that was a joy to be a part of. It crossed my mind later that Mariano had trouble in Chile, and thought back of the times when Muster rightly refused to play there, and just how infamous the Chilean crowd is. But we didn’t experience anything like that, and as far as we saw in lots of different tournaments, the Argentine and Chilean players just got along fine. Maybe we got the wrong impression, but I doubt that. So I really saw no reason not to support the Chileans, and I still don’t. Besides, I don’t think we need to take sides, and I really can’t see why WE, non-Argentines, couldn’t support both countries. Or actually, it’s not really countires we support, more like individual players. A lot of whom happen to come from the same country. So Ma, no hard feelings! I understand your sentiments, it’s just the when and where I had some problem with. But I do hope this little dispute won’t scare you away, and I’m sure we’ll have happpier topics to discuss in the future. egg
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Post by egg on Sept 21, 2004 0:18:10 GMT
Is it possible that the ones who have responded to your opinion, somewhat negatively, are ones other than an Argentinean or are other than a Chilean and they cannot feel it like you because they are not experiencing it like you do or have. Is it possible that you haven’t read the above mentioned posts? Especially the following lines:
I know, I am Hungarian and live far away from both side of the Andes so I cannot see the whole picture, I can never feel what and how you feel,
I just felt the need to say something in your defense. That's very nice of you, but could you posibly do it in a slightly less patronising way next time? Ma's post was perfectly clear.Based on what I read I don't feel that you are trying to offend anyone but just trying to put out there that there is animosity between the two countries and to support Mariano maybe would be a good idea not to necessarily cheer out loud for the Chileans. If I'm wrong in my interpretation, I apologize. No, I apologise!!! How did I DARE to cheer for the Chileans – in a thread about the Olympics?! Shame, shame, shame on me! I’ll go and hide somewhere, along with my Argentine flag, which I’m obviously not worthy of anymore. (Was I ever?!)
You know, marianosnewestfan, there are some really nice people on this board (not me, of course!), who tend to take each other’s feelings into consideration. That is if we know that somebody likes a certain player, then we won’t say anything bad about said player, even if we can’t stand him. So if Mariana feels bad about the Chileans, then we won’t cheer for the Chileans. Simple as that. (Not that we, or rather I flooded the board with Viva Chile-s, although there might have been one too many.) But thanks for telling us what we should be doing - just in case. That’s a true fan! Btw, have you seen any match of M by now? I’m just curious.
Louise, please forgive me! I know I shouldn't have, but I couldn't help myself.
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Post by Ma on Sept 21, 2004 6:07:24 GMT
Me again... I never wanted this to gone so far. I've Never said that you couldn't cheer for the chileans or anyone else. I've made a mistake, confusing two sepparated things that i wanted to say: I wanted to describe a reality about how are the things here, and tell you how they are like they are. My mistake was mixing that with the other thing i came to tell, about my feelings, when the Gonzales thing was happened the same day. I've tried to separate both things and to put in clear that i fully respect everyone's opinions, and i'm not trying to change anyone's mind, but evidently, i failed. I answered that post about the chileans in athens late, because i've read it late, and i thought that i can add something about it, i didn't knew that subject was ended. I'm sorry about it. And i want, if i can, and you won't kill me for that (just kidding!)to defend Maria. I think i understood what she tried to say, because is the same thing i felt with your athens post. I don't have any problem about you liking the chileans, but i've founded peculiar the reasoning: "i like Mariano, Mariano is not playing, so i cheer for the other argentinians, there's no other argentinians, so i will cheer for the chileans, if there's no one, then players which countries are around the pacific ocean, because they are closer to chile, and then, to argentina, where mariano lives, and if there's not any player of... ad infinitum! ;D Now i know you like Gonzo for other reasons, i don't have any intention to offend you, and neither has Maria, i'm sure of that. The whole "ad infinitum" thing is a joke, i know you'll understand... (you will come tonight to strangle me... isn't it?) jajaja hugs, ma
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Post by Last one maybe on Sept 21, 2004 11:04:29 GMT
Hola Ma! You didn’t think that I’d wait until tonight, when I could strangle you a lot earleir! ;D But seriously, at least now I understand what your real problem was with my post. I just wish you had told me straight away. And if you can’t do it in the original thread, (being on the old board), then you can still address ME with your problem here. We could’ve saved some time (it took me a while to get what exactly triggered your post, at least partly) and other people getting involved in it. Anyway, just a few last words. I’m sorry that my reasoning hurt your feelings. It was just a joke. Of course I didn’t suppport the Chileans, because Chile is close to Argentina. I supported them because I like them. I like a lot of players, and many of them happen to be from that region, but I also like a lot of non-Spanish-speakers. Of course when you go to a trounament you must decide who you watch, especially at the early stages when people you like might be playing at the same time. So you must have your priorities, so to speak. (Like your ad infinitum, but not quite. ). And if your favourites happen to lose, you don’t necessarily go home, (although that’s an option, too), but you watch the next people on your list. It just happened that my biggest favourites either didn’t even go to Athens, or lost early, and from the remaining field it was the Chileans I liked most. Which doesn’t mean we only started watching them later on, we saw some earlier matches of them, too. Because we like them. It’s that simple. I don’t like anyone just because he’s from a certain country (it’s not very likely that you’ll see me cheering for Coria, for example), and I won’t dislike anybody, just because he’s from a certain country. I’m sorry too, that things got a little out of hand, but I hope we’ve managed to make ourselves understood finally. Peace! egg
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Post by egg on Sept 21, 2004 11:10:49 GMT
Still learning how the new board words. But at least I gave myself a somewhat interesting name.
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